Podcast 360 Episode 9: Jenna Weiss-Berman and Martina Castro
Podcast 360 Episode 9: Jenna Weiss-Berman (Pineapple Street) and Martina Castro (Adonde Media)
Host: Jenna Weiss-Berman
Jenna Weiss Berman: Hi, I'm Jenna Weiss Berman. I am the co-founder of Pineapple Street Studios, a podcast company and currently the Executive Vice President of podcasts at Audacy, which is the company that bought Pineapple Street about four years ago. And last week I talked to Will Malnati, head of At Will Media. If you want to hear that conversation, go listen to it.
Martina Castro: I'm Martina Castro, founder and CEO of Adonde Media, a multilingual audio storytelling company.
Jenna Weiss Berman: So this show starts with the same thing every time, which is two truths and a lie. You have to tell me two truths and a lie about yourself. And then at the end of the show, I'm supposed to tell you my guess.
Martina Castro: That's right. Yeah. Okay, here we go. So I got my start in audio in college where I majored in broadcast journalism and I got my first internship. Second fun fact is that I started Adonde Media as part of a startup incubator for female founders in Santiago, Chile, South America. And my third is that Adonde started off working on projects in English and Spanish, but now we work in French, Portuguese and Mandarin.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Wow, well, I think I know what the lie is. My guess, which we will reveal the true answer at the end, is that you didn't start doing audio in college as a broadcast journalism major.
Martina Castro: Okay. Well, I guess we're going to find out at the end of this episode - won't we?
Jenna Weiss Berman: Can’t wait.
What do you think is the most interesting or exciting show or audio product that has launched in the past year?
Martina Castro: Ooh. So I just finished listening to The Retrievals and it’s so good. It just reminded me of everything I love about audio, and about storytelling. It's so funny that’s the first thing I think about. A) it's just the most recent thing I’ve listened to, but B) It doesn't surprise me because it’s the thing that makes me most excited- because it just goes to show that what the bread and butter of what I love about audio storytelling is still the most exciting thing that's happening for me.
It's just a matter of going back to the roots, and making a case for why this work should still be done- why we need to find the business models for this to continue to be made.
Jenna Weiss Berman: I love that you brought up the business models for limited run series, because that is a problem a lot of us are dealing with right now.
I feel like there are actually pretty decent paths in that, like at Pineapple we're selling a lot of stuff to Amazon, Apple, Spotify, and they've been really good partners. You know, it covers our budget and a little more.
It's a tough one- the monetization of limited run series which is sort of what got a lot of us into this space in the first place, including the listener.
How are you feeling about the industry as a whole right now? I know some people are freaking out. Some people are excited. Most people are a little bit of both. How do you feel about it?
Martina Castro: I think I'm feeling cautiously optimistic.
I wasn't feeling this way necessarily at the beginning of this year, but I've seen things shift. We've made it this far. I really wasn't sure how this year was going to shape up.
At the end of the day, I think we're going to see a much more consolidated field of players, and the opportunities are also very clear for those who want to come in and make some solutions.
I think it's going to be okay. I feel like what you're saying is the listeners will be the ones that are going to ultimately drive us to the answer.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Yeah, I like that.
Martina Castro: It's a very public radio answer for you, but I just can't help it. It's funny, we always end up there. The audience ends up having the answers for us- because they're the ones that are consuming this. If we listen to them, I think we'll find our way out of this weird time.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Yeah, it is a weird time. But like I've said this a lot, I feel like it was almost weirder that we were making so many deals in this space that made no financial sense for so many years.
Martina Castro: 100%! I was like, when is everyone going to just say the thing that we all know?
Jenna Weiss Berman: It's crazy. And sure things are maybe a little rough right now, but it's like this is a very necessary transition into having money thrown at you versus having to make money. If we're going to be a sustainable business, we have to figure that out.
Martina Castro: Yeah, the fundamentals of making a business work in the long term. So I think it can only be positive.
Jenna Weiss Berman: I think it's also really possible, you know, A lot of people I know are already kind of turning things around at their company. Not that I'm talking about myself… I think that things are going to look a lot better in like a year at Odyssey than they do now because we're going to be doing smarter deals.
Martina Castro: I really think we need to be smarter and more efficient about how we use our resources too.
Something that we've had to do because we've been bootstrapping from the beginning but like, I track every minute of my team. I'm thinking about what they're working on, months if not, you know, quarters ahead. And I think that's going to be to the benefit of everyone that we're really thinking about how we make things and why. And is it worth making?
Jenna Weiss Berman: You sound like a really fun boss tracking every minute of what your employees are doing.
Martina Castro: I hated it when anyone wanted to do that to me when I was an employee, but now that I'm on the other side, I'm like, I promise to my employees this will end up benefiting you. Because at the end of the day, if you want quality life/ work life balance, it's a matter of us making sure that you've got work and that you are not overworked because that's the other side that I can ensure I'm not going to over assign things.
What would you say to somebody who is trying to start a podcast company now? What advice would you give them?
Martina Castro: So if I could go back, I would have absolutely started with a flagship show.
I think right now, one thing that I'm just so upset with myself about is that I'm six years into having launched a company and I have no flagship show where I have been building my audience slowly but surely over the years.
Something that was hopefully a weekly show, something regular, something low lift, where I could highlight what we do best, where I could kind of experiment and play and also be building that core audience. Where I could kind of get them to understand what we make and market other new shows to them.
I think diverse streams of income are a big thing that I wish I had diversified in that direction from the beginning, and now we're trying to do it at the end and it's way harder.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Hindsight is 20/20.
Martina Castro: Do you agree? Is it interesting? Like, it's like I would never have thought that in the beginning that I needed, like, a show.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Totally. I mean, yeah, there are a million things that I would do.
Martina Castro: That was an easy one to do in 60 seconds.
Jenna Weiss Berman: I mean, the reason I wanted to talk to you is because I feel like you know, we both bootstrapped companies. And I think I am technically like an advisor or like a board member?
Martina Castro: Yeah! As long as you’re willing to call yourself one!
Jenna Weiss Berman: And I’m thrilled to be, but I feel like we've known each other for many years, having monthly calls to discuss how hard it can be sometimes to bootstrap and build a company. And, you know, as women, I think it adds an extra layer of difficulty for us.
So it's always been so great to be able to talk to you about what's going on in the business and you've built something really amazing. I actually feel like you're super well positioned because we are hearing more and more from advertisers and partners that want to be doing more in particular in Spanish and the bilingual space in audio. And you guys are kind of way ahead on that.
Martina Castro: Oh, thank you. Yeah. You remember when all of those articles were coming out about the, you know, the end of the industry? It's over! It's like just back in January, like podcasting is dead!
I hated those articles. It was like every week was a new one. And I was like, what am I going to tell my staff now? It's just like, stop, please media.
But one great thing was like everyone had a caveat and it was like, but internationally, we really see there is some promise in other markets. I was like, thank God because we have anchored ourselves there.
I feel like that was just really lucky but also, I don't want to say luck because I think women do that a lot. I want to give myself credit for having seen that gap back in 2017 because really nobody was thinking outside the United States at that time, at least inside the U.S., and nobody was thinking non-English.
And now it's like man, not just us, but open Netflix and you're getting marketed series in Korean or German. And we're finally accepting that stories don't have that sort of national barrier.
And once we embrace that in audio, I really think this myth that like we've reached peak podcast or something or like somehow there's just no more audience to be had- will fly out the window.
It's a minority of English speakers in the world, like a dramatic minority. And stories are compelling beyond languages. We just need to take them into new audiences and into new places.
So thank you. I’ve really enjoyed talking with you over the years. It has been my number one therapy. You have pulled me out of the depths of despair on so many occasions, always with so much laughter and such generosity, Jenna. Like, truly, you're always so sweet to remind me I'm not alone. And that nobody knows what they're doing. Like nobody else knows what they're doing.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Pretty much, we’re just making it up as we go along.
Martina Castro: And we are doing just fine!
Jenna Weiss Berman: Yeah, yeah exactly.
Two truths and a lie
Jenna Weiss Berman: My guess is that you just don't strike me as somebody who studied broadcast journalism in college.
Martina Castro: Ding, ding, ding! You are good! I was a women and gender studies major.
Jenna Weiss Berman: Totally illogical. Once I had a friend in college and I was studying law because I was like, I'm going to have to be a lawyer because that's, you know, rational and I need to make money and whatever. And I told my friend who was studying creative writing and film, I was like, you're just making a really poor decision by doing that. Like, what are you going to do? Like make movies? And that was Lena Dunham.
Martina Castro: Oh my gosh. That’s hilarious.
Jenna Weiss Berman: So, never take my advice!
Martina Castro: It was really great because it turned out that my one internship was for NPR to be a columnist for their outreach program for minority journalists. And I put that into a career and they said, look at that!
Jenna Weiss Berman: Yeah, you're killing it.
Martina Castro: Yeah. we're still in the game and I'm proud of us. We're like OGs in this podcasting game. I'm honored to have been chosen to be your interviewee and to continue to be able to count on you for the best business advice.
Jenna Weiss Berman: You're the best. Let's talk soon because I feel like you had a baby and we haven't caught up in a while. I really want to hear. So anyway, thanks everybody, for listening. Martina will be back next week and she will be the interviewer next week, so tune in for that. And Martina, do you want to tell everyone how to find Adonde?
Martina Castro: Of course. You can find us at @Adondemedia on the platform formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. On our website Adondemedia.com you can find links to all of our shows that we've made in a lot of different languages so I hope you check it out there.
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Podcast 360.
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